Touching upon the subject of arranged marriage with a guy from Pakistan. When he says it is this way (men are able to marry several women, while women can only have one husband) because religion says so, I say that 'religion sucks'. The answer I got was:
"not really
it has its own logics
well women were made for men
just to save the imbiguities of life religion made this rule"
Strange words from a smart guy, thanks to Asif for letting me post this.
what if women start marrying monkies, what will happen! this will change the race totally infact inplace of humans there will be some other creatures on earth, So you have to admit that Eastern and Western Peoples are different Races infact every Area or region has its own races and traditions, if they marry the race will change and a mixed race will emerg, next to that every person has his own identity, a women or a girl is one who reproduce, If a man marries more than one women It will remain confirm that she has his babies But what happen if she has more than one husband (only she knows then whos baby she is having) And this can lead to complex situation especially in inheritance, And i am sure Brotehr Sister Marrage is also not a tradition not even in people of your thought who dont believe God, If she has more than one husband the difference between Brother and sister wont be differentiated.
ReplyDeleteThe new research about genetics has confirmed that some genetic diseases appears when there is multiple cousin marrages, So the brotehr sister marrage will have more worst effects.
these rules are made by religion just to save the human race (And i think the latest genetic diseaes like HIV and cancer are bec of un-natural procedures followed by scientists)
now why i said womens are made for men because our religion told us that hawa the first lady on earth was born from ribs of Adams the first man And thats why was made for man, you can make comparision who needs other for what. who is dominant from the start and why he is dominant
They are equally important for each other. but these rules that our religion has given are not without logic. it has logics which saves the Nature infact all the laws our religion has given us more natural than any other thing.
Forgive me... but I still don't get the logic in this. Brothers and sisters, what do they have to do with arranged marriages? Would you be marrying your sister if your parents didn't find someone for you to marry? I do understand that if a woman has more than one man, it will be hard to know who's child she gives birth to. But isn't that the whole point? One, big family where everybody lives together? No, I really don't get it...
ReplyDeleteGimme a monkey!
well why i brought brother and sister in discussion?
ReplyDeletelet me explain
As you said its not allowed even in you people, marrage bet brother and sister, same here in our religion its too prohibted.
its nothing to do with arrange marrage. Its seperate issue from the topic i am discussing about have more than one husband at a time.
its a bit complex to understand.
When a women have two mens no one knows whos baby she is having and according to that after 1 or two generation no one knows whos son or daughter he or she is might be there is possiblity that they are brother and sister who are getting married and they dont even know about it only their mother knows, and if they are brother and sister, i am saying not always as it might be the case. So confusion starts that what's happening arround religion has given rules to follow to clear this imbiguity to save the Nature. ( In any case recent scientific research has proved that cousin marrage is dangrous as it causes genetic diseases )
Sorry i might not be successful in explaining to you but it is the case in our area and religion, we are following it because we think its right.
If one man has three wives, is it common for the children growing up in that family to get married? Growing up in the same family but only being half-siblings, they still get married?
ReplyDeleteBecause if they do, then that can still cause their children to get diseases that are caused by relatives having children, although I am the first to admit I am far from an expert on this topic.
However, if children growing up in the same family, with the same father, do not usually get married, then I see no reason why it should be more complicated to have the same mother rather than father. The whole 'maybe they have the same parents as opposed to only one of them being the same' only needs to be taken into account if someone marries someone in that family they grew up with.
I understand the reason this is accepted is that it is religion. It is written in an old book that it is okay, and that it should be that way. I respect that. I don't understand it, but I respect the fact that people live by these rules, I just don't understand why. It's circular reasoning. Ways of living are explained by the book and the people's thoughts. The people's thoughts are explained by the way of living. We live this way because it says so in the book, and the book says so because this is the way we should live.
But WHY??
Well on that WHY a whole book can be written of unlimited words and cahpters.
ReplyDeletei will explain in short.
I consider you have studied human history. what he has been doing in the era of darkness,
Every one has his own style own rules of living, there isnt any unanimity or similarity between anything they do Some worship Rocks, fire, woods, Sun, animals and etc etc just bec they gave them just a little benifit.
Some people even dont believe in GOD. Infact it is happening still. well its their own life no one can force them.
When our religion came, remeber the past three religion before Islam were the part of change that took place in centuries not in days, God gave them three books and religion
the books were Tauraat, Zaboor And Anjeel they have thier own messengers Mosses , Jesus and Christ they have their own rules and regulations which were ordered by GOD, If you study these books in sequence then you might come to know that its the revised edition with some more good things and and changes, Then God send the last messenger with a book that has been finalised THE QURAN, it has been said in that this is the end no more messenger will come after that nor any book. Its the refined form of past three books
Its us the people living on earth just bec of ourselfishness dont accept each other and fight with each other. This Book holy Quran is an practical life example it has all the rules and regulations a man can face in life, or to lead a successful life.
its complete code of conduct of life (No man on earth can say words like that or things like that it is said in Quran)
As you might admit that ever one likes good things and adopt them. So we muslim just say read it and understand it, not forcing any one to be muslim.
So you might understand now that why we follow it or why its written and how its written, its wording of GOD.
we believe it and thats why we follow it
Well you are Right, its true But he married her at the age of 6 and brought her with him at 9 BUT he gave her the rights or used his right when she became an adult. Not before that.
ReplyDeleteAdult at age 9... Wow
ReplyDeleteI thought a girl had to at least reach puberty to be concidered an adult. Since that happens earlier and earlier these days, I can't imagine that having happened to that girl, at age 9, all the way back.
You know, I just have to go back to my big WHY??? again. Why would a grown up man want to marry a six year old girl? What was the reason? Did he just fancy her (puke break) or was there some reason why he 'had to' do it? Jeez... nine... She must still have been playing with dolls, if she had any, when this man came and got her, told her she was an adult and forced himself on her, had his way with her. I can hear her crying all the way over here...
What does this have to do with religion?
hi well dont know why the comments didnt got posted here. It ok now let me expalin again
ReplyDeleteyes its right that he got married to sex year girl at the age of 6 and brought her with him at the age of 9 but he used his rights or given her rights of beiong married when she become an adult.
Its misconception that its about want to marry a young girl at that time, you might not had learnt about what was the facts behind that early age marrage.
thats what i hd been saying that mis conception and wrong interpratation without having knowledge is totaly wrong thats what has been problem with the west about islam. So dont take it in that sense She was left alone and no one there to take care her (and a strange omen cant live with any men even if she is too young) thats why he married her at 6 and send her to his relative for better environment and appointed her as care taker of her, At age 9 he called her with him and lived togehter but then when she attained the age of being an adult then they used the right of husband and wlfe Not before that.
In our Wedding ceremony there are two stages
1. Contract (Called Nikah)
2. Permission to live as Partners (Called Rukhsati)
Nikah can be at any time But Rukhsati is allowed after the permission from girls Parents (Some times if parents agree both of these things took place together)
And please Dont use any words about our Holly Prophet that herts mine or other muslims feelings.
I am Asif Dar From Pakistan (still posting Anonymously) but it doesnt matter all above anonymous comments are posted by me.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDelete--removed one of two identical posts by Anonymous--
ReplyDeleteSo there was a reason he married her, she didn't have anyone to go to. They got married at 6, he sent her to live with relatives until she was 9. Then the brought her with him to live with his eight other wives. He slept with her when she was an adult (age 14-15 according to Asif) and everything was peachy.
Maybe love is overrated.
Well Mr. Who ever you are,
ReplyDeleteWhy always these thigs are pointed out in muslims, Any non muslim never talked about the bright picture of islam or its plus points, but always discuss these small imbiguities that has arosen from misconception and lack of knowledge, In Islam Women are more secure than any other religion, they have equal rights like men.
you are saying that killings on honor, forced marrages and other inequalities are only in ISLAM, If this is the case then my friend you are totally wrong
its in much more worse form in other religions and Areas of world than muslim countries.
Honor Killing is there , forced marrage yes it is there in other religion too BUT you gave them other name (Rape and leave them) Bad things and evils are every where Its only prominant where its being suppressed Infact everything that is being tried to suppress looks like its prominent BUT in actual picture its not
Why it seems that these eveil are only in our religion or area is bec we point out these things and gave severe punishment to these people. And these are matter of life and death for us. you people point out these things when they are happenning But when we gave them punishment according to our law you say its against human rights.
But sorry to say in other religion mostly they ignore these eveils just to save their images (fake images i call)
While we people face reality. And you people instead of balaming others first try to see into youself what your area is doing.
Well if you calculate actul satistics then these eveils and crime ratio of Honor Killing and rape are much lower than other areas or religion.
You people always see the things from negative side try to see positive and real picture, if one scholar or person says anything it doesnt mean its like that.
if you people said so that you are libral societies than why you people impose restrictions over muslim girls to wear scarf in institutes. in france and Germany. Isnt it against their right.
If a man or thing is wrong the two or 3 people may follow it may be more than a thousand who folow that thing ,
BUT 2 BIllion People cant be fool or senseless at a time who are following one GOD , One Book and One Prophet, it means there is something in it that they are following.
Give me one example like that of Makkah And Madina in saudi Arabia, where over today 09-11-2004 over 1 million people (muslims)are gathered to pray
They are not following different things all of them doing same thing in same way. Following same laws. Behind one men (Imman - The Speaker) And in whole year the figures reach over 100 million who visit there.
So atleast a sensible person will think at least there is something that attract them to do so.
Taking a single matter and keep on pointing it from different angles isnt always the solution, that he says this, he say this and the other says this.
For your knowledge i have a very very limited knowledge about Islam. but the eveils you people have been pointing are also there in your religion and area too.
tell me one thing what what good things your societies had about womens? then i will better answer your these question rather arguing over argus.
Asif from Pak
Michael, My friend
ReplyDeleteYou are talking about some exceptioonal cases in your every comments.
As you said A women in Nigeria, And A scholar has said this and that
Then my friend letter "A" means only one (Single) Case Not every one is like that (And these cases are reported not proved) So it means they are exceptional cases you cant consider them to conclude them about such a big majority. A single can never be a represantative. SO if you have some thing as a whole in whole Nation thats happening and you think is not right then point it out.
From your comments it appears that you are either are lawyer or some NGO worker, that is working on some cases and has figured out such things.
In reality these thing cant be considered to conclude anything.
Rest i asked you a question i dont know why you havent answered. that what benifits or rights you area women has?
Sure i am too enjoying this discussion, but remember i am from some who had a very limited knowledge about religion in depth. So yet i admit that i am unable to explain many things clearly to you.
Thanks and Regards
And Sorry if i said anything wrong during my discussion.
Asif from PAKISTAN (Its a country over 150 million population )